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opinions and conversation about ittoday. one thing we can all agree upon is that we thank those who served the country for the last ten years in that effort. we thank you today and we honor you today as well. >> they did their best. thank you for joining us. >> "america live" starts right now. now. >> . >> fox news alert what could become a critical crossroads for america. we have new reaction in just now from the white house and the state department and the pentagon as we get reports of a deadly chemical attack on a syrian village. that's according to the initial reports. we're investigating it at this moment. welcome to america live, everyone, i'm megyn kelly. earlier this morning, syrian state tv accused rebels there of using chemical weapons in an attack that reportedly killed at least 25 people in the northern part of that war torn country. the rebels immediately denied those claims and instead accused the syrian regime of launching the attack.

president obama has made clear in the past that in his view, the use of chemical weapons by either side in syria would change the rules for our involvement in syria. chief washington correspondent james rosen is live from the white house with more. >> the pentagon has been more definitive than the white house telling us they have yet no confirmation, no confirmation that chemical weapons have been used by either side in the syrian civil war, it was syrian state-run television that first made the allegation, broadcasting images purporting to show the victims of the chemical attack being treated near the syrian border. assadd blamed the rebels and the white house stated there is no evidence the rebels used such weapons and the officials here are deeply skeptical of such claims by the regime. >> i can tell you that we are

assessing the reports about the possible use of chemical weapons, as well as the reports about the origins of possible chemical weapons in syria. and no other about our judgments on that. i can tell you that we're evaluating it. >> and assad has used scud missiles, fighter planes and other military assets to try to squash the two year uprising, upwards of 70,000 lives have been lost. and president obama, as megyn mentioned, says that either moving the chemical weapons around or using them would cross a quote, unquote, red line that would cause the president to change his calculus about the hands-off posture that the u.s. has adopted in the conflict. there were reports that the assad regime used against he the opposition forces, incapacitating thing called agent 15, which incapacitates

your nervous system and causes hallucinations. >> megyn: thank you, the state department weighed in moments ago as we were going to air, saying that it remains, quote, quite concerned that assad's government will resort to nonconventional weapons. that doesn't tell us whether they have today, but they remain quite concerned that the government will. now, james just mentioned, it was just last august that president obama issued a warning, and as i mentioned, about chemical weapons in syria. no matter which side used them, here is some of that. >> we cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hand of the wrong people, and we have been very clear to the assad regime, but also to other players on the ground that a red line for us is-- we start seeing a whole bunch of chemicals weapons being moved around or utilized. that would change my calculus.

>> megyn: coming up later this hour, colonel oliver north with the breaks news and what the united states of america might do, might have to do in the wake of the statements by president obama, if the chemical weapons claims prove true. we've got more breaking news this time from the investigation into the deaths of seven marines during a training exercise in nevada. we are now hearing the deaths may have been caused by an exploding mortar. it happened at the hawthorne army depot, an important training facility and weapons storage site. we understand several other people were also hurt and rushed to the hospital, and trace gallagher with updates from the west coast news room this afternoon. trace? >> megyn, i think it's important for people to understand, the 60 millimeter mortar has explosive power and we contacted tony schaeffer an expert in all of these things, he said these are built for maximum concussion and schrapnel and he says it would

kill anybody in about a 20 to 25 yard radius and think about that, you're talking about the size of a basketball court and the weapons take about three or four marines normally to operate, but it's common during training to have many others. of course, we're talking about 15 here, seven killed, eight wounded, three of them serious and the marines have told the military crews around the world to stop firing these things, until they can figure out exactly what went wrong. the hawthorne army depot that you're looking at here has been a key staging area for the military since world war ii, talking bombs and rockets and other weapons and for those who have never been out there, it's hundreds of miles of desert and the reason the military also-- it's similar in terrain and topography to afghanistan and a great training area for special forces who go to the areas, again, 15 marines involved. seven dead, megyn, eight wounded and three of them said

to be in serious condition. we'll keep you updated as the information comes in. >> megyn: all right. trace, we want to tell you the last couple of hours since the news has been unfolding. senate majority leader harry reid went to the senate floor and talked about the training accident and immediately talked about the sequester budget cuts and military training. we'll let you hear the remarks and the latest on the investigation a little later in the show. tensions rising on the korean peninsula where the u.s. is flying nuclear capable b-52 bombers over the south. the pentagon says the move is in response to escalating threats from north korea and that it's trying to draw attention to the fact that the u.s. has, quote, extended deterrents capabilities. the aircraft flew over the peninsula on march 8th with another mission planned for today. after more than a decade, pakistani authorities arrest add man linked to the brutal murder of wall street journal

reporter daniel pearl. a senior pakistani official says the suspect was arrested in karachi. daniel pearl was on the way to interview a pakistani militant, he was later beheaded in a video that was sent to u.s. officials and posted online and is extremely upsetting, so now the beginnings of some justice. fox news alert, growing chaos over a plan to raid folks' personal bank accounts in cyprus. we have been expecting a vote today on the controversial money grab, which was supposed to help cyprus get a bailout from you. it's now unclear what is happening with that vote, but since the idea was announced, there have been runs on the atm's, they shut down the banks and folks have been protesting in the streets. and some people in other parts of the world have been asking if their own money is safe in their banks.

stuart varney is the anchor of varney and company on the fox business network. stuart, they closed the banks, the cypriots got wind of this deal and said i don't think so, the government is not going to take 10% of my taxed money out of my savings account. i'm going to go to the bank and withdraw my money. the cypriotic equivalent of uncle sam, can't do that to me so they shut down the banks. so what happened today? >> the vote on whether or not the cypriot government is going to be able to reach into a private bank and take some of that money, the vote is in absolute chaos, megyn. about an hour ago, the ruling party said it would abstain from taking part in this vote. then it issued a call to delay the vote for one day. then the finance minister of cyprus resigned, but his resignation has not yet been accepted. in other words, this is a chaotic situation and the bailout of the whole country at this moment is in limbo, but to get back to your main

point, megyn, you're absolutely right. we've reached an international financial principle here. in the past, if you lent money to a bank or a country that was going sour, you, the lender, lost money. this time around, it's a new principle. if you have money in a bank account in that country, you will lose. you may not have lent that money to anybody, but you're going to lose some of it. that's a very important breach of principle. your money in a bank account anywhere is now at risk. >> and what-- there's a new york times piece today arguing that this is really no big deal because cyprus is a tiny country the size of vermont and basically, it uses these bank accounts for money laundering, by the russians for the most part. but is that the full story, stuart? because i see the people in the streets in cyprus, they don't look like russian mafia, they look like people who are ticked off their savings accounts just got taxed 10% or thereabouts by the government

without so much as a how do you do? >> and it's contrary and in fact, breach of principle. you're right the people in the street aren't russian mobsters, don't have a ton of money in the bank. and they're small-time savers. and they feel violated because they have some of the money taken away. again, it's the breach of principle and how safe is your money in a bank account now at that cyprus proposes to do this, may other countries propose the same? spain and italy, for example, deeply in debt they cannot repay and maybe the government needs the money and maybe their governments will go after private bank accounts just as they're trying in cyprus. >> what would you do if your money was sitting in say, a spanish bank account and you know that country is in severe trouble. do you wonder, is this going to happen here and is my money safe in the bank account? the whole banking system is based on the trust that we will maintain your money for you, we will not give it to the government no matter how much they come and demand it, but let me just ask you, who struck the deal on behalf of

cyprus and why now do they have to have-- is this the equivalent of the legislature approving a proposed executive action and if they don't approve it, if they continue to abstain, does this thing actually happen? >> cyprus ran out of money. they he need a bailout. the europeans said that the rest of europe, the euro zone, said to the cypriots, you can get the money and get 13 billion dollars, but you've got to reach into private bank accounts, reach into the russian mob money, and take some of it back, as a good faith offer that you're prepared to raise some money to get this bailout. and if they now vote no, you cannot go after private bank accounts, that means that bailout is off. and frankly, cyprus is flat out of money. it's then possible that the russians will come in and say, you can have a bailout. we'll give you the money, but you give us your oil and gas drilling rights off the island of cyprus. so, there's international intrigue coming into this all

over the place. it is a really messy situation, but the point is, megyn, you put your finger on it, it's an important breach of principle. how safe is your money in your bank account if the cypriots do this? >> it's the equivalent of your leader sneaking into your house in the middle of the night, slicing over your mattress and taking out 10% of what you have in there. >> that's right. i can say i don't think it's going to happen in the united states. >> megyn: no. >> because we can print our own money. >> megyn: and there would be a full-on revolution in the united states. you try telling my friend in staten island, 10% of their account is going to the federal government. thank you. and there's a description of retirement crisis, barely prepared to last a half of the years. and the characterization of the devil some say bears a

striking resemblance to our president. and one political forecaster is giving a prediction of the 2014 mid terms, what he's predicting for the democrats and g.o.p. will likely surprise you. that's next. do we have a mower? no.

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>> well, there's our election music back again. so soon? maybe not. and maybe not too soon. one of america's most respected political forecasters is today offering his first full prediction of the 2014 mid terms. and you know president obama has been focused on those, as a lot of his behavior since he won his second term has we are told been focused trying to recapture the house for the democrats. and our next guest has an eye looking ahead on the president's chances of doing that. larry sabado, good to see you again. >> nice to see you and glad people can't reach through the

television to strangle. >> megyn: have you enjoyed your break and have a nice time? you've been putting it to good use, trying to forecast the next big election. as i say you're not alone. the president seems focused on the goal of reclaiming the house for the democrats and the democrats do indeed have a much higher approval rating in the house than the republicans. and so you say what about the dems' chances of doing that? >> well, they're certainly the things you've mentioned, working in the democrats' favor, but i tell you something, the democrats have to pick up 17 net seats to take control of the house in 2014. and megyn, when you go to the district level and you try to find those 17 seats, it's really difficult to do. and this is going to be the 6th year itch election, the second mid term of a two term administration. in the vast majority of cases in american history it's not been a good election for the incumbent white house.

and the idea of the democrats not only picking up seats, but a substantial number of seats, that becomes a very difficult thing to do. >> megyn: are all rules out the window? because we were told in the wake of presidential elections that barack obama managed to make the electorate look and be very different than it had been, that you know, the people's insistence that registered voters wouldn't be likely voters didn't pan out ap and got huge coalitions to the polls. not so in 2014? >> it will be partially the case. i would estimate that the democrats would pick up nationally about 1.6% of the vote compared to 2010, just based on the growth of the minority population. you know, democrats get about 80% of all minority votes combined. republicans can get up to about 60% of the votes of white voters, so, obviously, that's a plus for the

democrats, but the turnout declines substantially, megyn from a presidential year to a mid term election, from 63% on average for presidential elections all the way down to 48% for mid term. and that's an advantage for republicans because the people who turn out in mid term tend to be older and less minority and less young than the people who turn out for presidential elections. >> and do you believe that that's going to be the case in 2014, notwithstanding what we saw during the last presidential election in terms of the electorate? i mean, obviously, the president as he put it something, he said in 2010. so the same president who's got the same get out the vote effort and he lost, his party lost big time in the house and do you believe that 2014 is going to look like 2010 mid terms or the 2012 presidential elections here? >> i think it will be in between, but closer to a mid-- a normal mid term election. 2010 was a heavily republimid t 2006 was a heavily democratic

mid term. a normal mid-term election has a reaction to the incumbent white house party. that is the president's party loses seats. now, it's possible because of the factors you're citing, minority vote growth, for example, that the president's party will gain some seats. i just can't find 17 of them net that they will gain across the country. >> megyn: how about over in the senate. let's talk about over in the senate, because right now the republicans are in the minority in the senate. the democrats control that chamber. and that republicans need a net gain of six seats if they want to control the senate. do they have any chance of doing that? >> they have a chance. you know, since world war ii the average gains for the out of the white house, republicans in 2014. the average gain has been six seats. how many seats do the republicans need to control the senate? six. of course, that assumes,

megyn, if i could be blunt, that they don't nominate a bunch of incompetent nincompoops. that would hurt their cause. >> megyn: i can see your point incompetent nincompoops sometimes make it through, but they manage to weed those out. a bold managing on record first before anybody what's going to happen next year. coming up a debate on race and free speech gaining national attention after a popular magazine publishes a front page story what it's like to be white in philadelphia. now, the magazine and the author of the article find themselves under attack from the philadelphia mayor and under investigation from his office. and they are calling this a violation of the first amendment, just to express your feelings about what it is like to be caucasian in philadelphia. we'll speak with one of the editors coming up. and one student's quick thinking phone call head off mass murder on a florida

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>> developing under-- out of the university of florida. more on the scare that caused evacuation of the dorm. and man described as the would-be bomber. trace gallagher has the information from the west coast. trace. >> reporter: after looking at the fire power, the police chief came out yesterday and said it could have been a very bad day for everyone, as the first victim likely would have been the roommate, man who lived with the student with all the fire power who says the only time that he ever saw

his roommate make eye contact with him is when he put a gun in his face. and that man's name bk, and he talked to the local campus news station. listen to this. >> the firearms so that you did come out. >> yeah, the shooter has now been identified as james oliver and saying he shot

himself shortly after that confrontation and found a handgun, a tactical assault rifle, a backpack containing four explosive devices and police believe he had a large scale attack planned and the students saying they're very, very pleased with the way the police responded to this. a bunch of phone calls came in when the alarm went off and a lot of people saw the confrontation between the alleged shooter or would-be shooter and his roommate and sparked a very prompt police response. this could have been horrifying, megyn. >> megyn: wow, all right. trace, and just so the audience is clear the picture we were showing was of the gunman and we didn't run a picture of the roommate. you just heard his phone interview. our thanks to trace for that report. we've got more on the top story after the break. as the white house, pentagon and state department react to the unconfirmed reports of a chemical weapons attack in syria and this was what everyone had feared might

happen. remember the reporting we did about the government moving around chemical weapons. they said it was to avoid them getting in the wrong hands. what has happened there? they claim that there has been an attack by the rebels that killed more than two dozen people. the government denies that and now, our administration is weighing in. colonel oliver north is next on where america goes with all of this. plus, a wildly popular tv series on the bible sparking controversy after the show's producers are challenged about how a key character, some believe bears a striking resemblance to our president. and a gun-toting granny killed her grandson. was it self-defense or calculated as the prosecution suggests? we'll play the 911 call and kelly's court will help you decide who the real victim it. >> i've just been shot. >> where are you at? what city?

>> west bloomfield. >> how did you get shot? >> my grandma shot me. >> your grandma or grandpa shot you. >> my grandma. i'm gonna die. morning, brian!

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♪ >> right now vatican city, some of the crowds are headed home after the inauguration of pope francis. as many as 200,000 cardinals, dignitaries crowded together

for the installation mass. the pope breaking with tradition. skipping the pope mobile in favor of an open top jeep and going out of his way connecting with the crowd and kissing babies and the long way through the piazza. look at this. and he stopped to bless a severely disabled man and known for his-- oh, great pictures. before mass began he received the gold and silver fisherman's ring which symbolizes the papacy. boy, oh, boy, what a shift in story. back to our top story today. the state department saying at the top of the hour it's very concerned about unconfirmed reports from syria that rebel forces have used chemical weapons to launch a deadly attack. now, the rebels say it was the government who did it. and our government doesn't seem to know yet what happened. and syrian tv airing the video

claiming it shows victims of a chemical attack being treated in a hospital. the rebels again deny the allegations that it was-- that they were the ones who did this and the obama administration says it has no reason to believe the syrian regime. in the past, president obama has warned that the use of chemical weapons by either side in this conflict would be unacceptable and would be lead to consequences from the united states. joining me now for reaction, lt. colonel oliver north. a fox news military analyst and joins us via skype. thank you for being here. the rebels say it was the syrian government that was trying to take out a police academy that the rebels had managed to take over and that it was a scud missile that missed, and that the government is to blame. the government says this is the rebel's doing and our white house is saying it's deeply skeptical of the claims, that the chemical weapons were used at all. what do you make of it? >> well, based on the footage that we've already shown, that i believe came out of cbs or

ap. that shows casualties, several of them at a hospital or a medical treatment facility, but no indications that i can see in that footage, megyn, that would indicate that they've been exposed to a chemical agent and i say that because ten years ago today, we were in what we call full mop, the full protective equipment against chemical attack. griff jenkins and i driving north toward baghdad with the 5th marines and all of the medical personnel who were to treat us in case we were exposed to some of saddam's weapons had the same kind of clothing and equipment. and none of the doctors or nurses or technicians that you see in the footage that we've been provided with have any indications or have been exposed to any chemical agents. i would regard all this have to be treated with great skepticism, if indeed that footage accurately shows the casualties from this. >> megyn: so if this is not the result of chemical weapons and sadly, it's no -- it's the not -- it's barely news anymore when we see the

reports of dead, of the dead coming out of syria as we now have 80,000 or so reported dead in this conflict. but chemical weapons would take it to a different level. the united states has warned about that and israel has warned about that and so when you see the pictures and this claim coming from the assad regime, that it's the rebels who use chemical weapons, what do you make of that, propaganda? >> well, it could well be propaganda, it could also be an indication that the rebels have gotten their hands on at least what some of the israelis and intelligence people believe the munitions ship from iraq to syria in advance of the u.s. invasion ten years ago today. and so it's entirely possible that they do have their hands on weapons that either came out of libya or came out of iraq ten years ago that again, the footage that we've seen indicates to me that there's no chemical exposure to those medical technicians treating it. otherwise they would have protection and you'd see different, if you will, symptoms among those

casualties. >> megyn: even if alepto, syria? they probably don't have the hospital facilities that we have here in the united states. >> certainly no doubt about that. the best trauma care in the world is that provided by the u.s. military. i would point out, however, that the syrian regime knows they've got chemical munitions and providing to those treating both those and the military. >> megyn: and i do want to tell the viewers just last week, the head of israel's military intelligence warned that he believed that assad was making quote, advanced preparations to use chemical weapons. how that plays in with that warning we don't know. i want to ask you, so far we've been exploring the thread that it's propaganda and our white house and pentagon doesn't seem to believe it yet. if it's true, and if we see nor such attack, if this is the road, one side or the other has chosen to go down in syria, ollie, colonel, what's the next move?

before i get to you react let's listen to president obama on the subject and the warnings he had. >> we can not have a situation where chemicals or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people. ando the assad regime, but also to other players on the ground that a red line for us is-- we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. that would change my calculus. >> megyn: and he went on to say in december, the use of chemical weapons would be totally unacceptable, if you make the tragic mistake of using them. there will be consequences and be held accountable, he addressed syria. >> unfortunately his new secretary of defense, chuck hagel, said yesterday he could not see a situation where military force was an appropriate option. so, obviously, they've got to get their act together within the white house and the pentagon as to what they deliver--

what they believe and how they deliver the threats about a red line. but again, i point out that there's no doubt there's chemical weapons there. there's no doubt there's some persistent agents that would cause extraordinary suffering and for some period of time. but i look the at the footage that we've shown thus far, megyn, it does not look to me like it's a vx, a nerve agent or a blood agent. it might have been chlorine gas because that would dissipate fairly quickly and not have contamination. and the footage may be propaganda from both sides. >> megyn: there's been cases in the past they've alleged to use chemical weapons and found out it was tear gas which would not qualify for a chemical weapon. lt. colonel oliver north, thanks so much. >> my pleasure. >> megyn: up next, a dramatic debate on issues of race and free speech after a popular magazine publishes a front

page story what it's like to be white in philadelphia. now the magazine finds itself under attack from the philadelphia mayor and under potential investigation from his office. the mayor wants this speech shut down. he finds it so offensive, what they wrote about what it's like to, quote, be white in philly. we'll speak with one of the magazine's editors right after this break. and a death defying feat over one of the world's most iconic cities caught on camera. the vertigo indiesing video that's been seen more than half a million times. and a debate over financial priorities as we hear conflicting reports whether the white house easter egg roll will be canceled due to budget concerns. i thought, i thought this was all funded by donations and sales of eggs? maybe not. bunny-gate 2013. stay tuned. ♪ hippity hop and easter is on its way ♪

♪ bring in every girl and boy, baskets full of easter toys ♪ ♪ things to make your easter bright and gay ♪ [ loud party sounds ]

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. >> we're track ago debate about race relations and free speech that's unfolding at this moment in the united states. it started when philadelphia magazine published a cover story with the title "being white in philly" the story looks at race relations in the city of brotherly love. and it has instantously sparked an uproar. the city's mayor firing off accusations of stereo typing. ignorant condemnations and so on and now he wants an investigation into the magazine and the writer and believes that even speaking the words in this article may have somehow been unconstitutional. tom mcgracgrath is the editor.

and mayor nudder wrote a scathing article that went on to talk about the abject ignorance reflected in the ill-advised un-inspired and thoroughly unimaginative la meant and went on to ask the commission to evaluate whether the speech in this essay is not the reckless equivalent, quoting here, of shouting fire in a crowded theater. your reaction? >> well, i mean, overall i think it's ridiculous. you know, i think, first of all, the mayor mccharacteri mischaracterizes the story. we sent a writer into the white neighborhood that largely borders on a black neighborhood and interviewed them with experiences with

race in the neighborhood. and they had race racist horrib things to say and others were empathetic and all people need to engage more on the topic because we're never going to get past it as an issue unless we start having a conversation about it. i'm he not sure how the mayor, first of all, described this as the way he does. sort of this disgusting terms. but beyond that, the idea that he would ask for an official rebuke of the magazine i find fairly chilling as someone who is an american citizen and thinks the first amendment is important. >> he thinks you've gone too far in espousing president and back to challenge and generalizations and an extreme reaction. and the first amendment guru, no greater expert as far as i'm concerned in this country wrote a piece knocking the mayor down a peg on that saying he's factually incorrect, that there's anything inconsistent with what's in the article with the first amendment.

that you have a right to say this. and indeed, usually the speech-- the answers to speech is more speech. and he went to 15 white people and didn't talk to any black people and therefore presented a biased point of view. >> we were transparent of what we were doing and only talking to white people. we thought it would be an interesting way to advance the conversation about race, specifically in philadelphia. but again, the piece quotes white people some are who are incredibly bigoted and some who are not bigoted in the slightest. the mayor is cherry-picking which he wants to pay attention to. the bigger irony, at the same time he says he was asking us to be rebuked for the story having the philadelphia human relations commission to conduct its own investigation into race relations in philadelphia and precisely the reason we did the story. >> megyn: good coming out of

this and now he wants an investigation into the race relations and the article author, his theory we needed an open discussion on what's really going on on the streets of philadelphia. our public discourse ignores the fact that race, particularly in a place like philadelphia, is also an issue for white people, though white people never talk about it. what he wanted to get started is a discussion in which they said all the things that they were secretly thinking that may have been holding back the races coming together, and then african-american people would have the opportunity to do the same. >> don't get me wrong. the mayor's correct that there are some horrible racist views in this story. but they're not something that the magazine ascribes to, and i'm baffled the mayor wants to shut us down and have the same conversation himself. >> megyn: he thinks you have in your article, the magazine,

portrayed african-americans and i quote as an ethnic group in its entirety is lazy, shiftless, irresponsible and largely criminal. >> well, again, i think that's a mischaracterization of what the piece says. i think he needs to reread it i don't think it says that in the article at all. >> megyn: did he call you at all? >> no, actually i reached out to his office last week and invited him to a panel discussion we were having last night and his office declined and said he was not interested in coming. >> megyn: i know that you've responded publicly saying it's ironic to have the mayor trying to shut down your free speech when his free speech was drowned out at a public event, i think last week, when he was trying to speak and they were blowing whistles and so loud some of his constituents said he could not be heard and now, he does not want you to be heard, but he does want the commission, the city commission to investigate the state of race relations in

the city. what do you think is really going on here with the mayor and his scathing letter to your article. >> it's hard for me to say. i know that the mayor feels passionately about issues and he's certainly entitled to do that. the further irony in this the mayor himself a year ago went to a black church and gave kind of a scolding to the young teenagers and told them to pull up their pants and told them they were damaging their own race and he clearly feels passionate about issues, but apparently he's the only one that is allowed to say what he thinks about the issue and-- by the way, i just want to say, i don't dislike the mayor, i think he's done a 0 lot of of good things for the city and i'm baffled. >> megyn: the author talks honestly about his own experiences as a white man living in philly and talked about how when he drives through north philly to visit his son, i continue to feel both profoundly sad and a blind desire to escape though i wonder, am i allowed to even

say that? may mayor's answer, no, you are not. we'll see where it goes from here. tom, thank you. >> thank you. >> megyn: we're tracking breaking developments in the deaths of seven americans and some controversial comments. michael, tell us why you used to book this fabulous hotel? well you can see if the hotel is pet friendly before you book it, and i got a great deal without bidding. and where's your furry friend? oh, i don't have a cat.

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>> well, a growing controversy over a wildly popular tv series on the bible. after some viewers believed that the character who plays the devil bears a striking resemblance to the president of the united states. both the history channel and the producers have been trying to defend themselves as trace gallagher explains live from l.a. with more. trace? >> very much a surprise hit by the way, megyn, it didn't get

a lot of promotion and the critics didn't love it and premier episode 14 million viewers. this thing is beating american idol. as soon as it airs you can see this here, twitter, the web were abuzz comments of satan resembly president obama. and you can see yourself. the actor is a named meddy. and he's not when in character doesn't look anything like president obama. the series is produced by mark burnett who of course did survivor, that he says there's no deliberate link between satan and the president. this is utter nonsense. the history channel has issued a statement saying, i am quoting here, history channel has the highest respect for president obama. the series was produced with an international and diverse cast of respected actors. it's unfortunate that anyone made this false connection, and yet they did. remember when the game of thrones that show used the phony george w. bush head

impaled on a stick. they admitted it was a huge mistake and apologized and that scene was later edited out of the show and taken off the dvd's and they admitted it was a mistake and the history channel, mark burnett saying there's nothing, nothing that indicates that this is at all anybody's intent. megyn. >> megyn: didn't they say in the game of thrones, we just had the head lying around and we needed to use it to save one i mean, they didn't come entirely clean, did they, trace? >> no, they took it out of a tent. and we go in the tent and pull things out of costume and put things up and put wigs on them. and never noticed it resembled the former president until they put it on television. >> megyn: very dicey. trace, thank you. breaking developments in the deaths of seven marines killed at a training accident at a military depot in nevada today. now, new questions of senator harry reid brings up the deaths and then moments later complains about the recent

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>> fox news alert on breaking developments on that deadly explosion during a military training exercise. as the top democrats in congress raises questions by bringing up the accident while moments later complaining about recent changes to the military budget. brand new hour of "america live," i'm megyn kelly. and an investigation is underway after a mortar exploded unexpectedly killing seven marines at the hawthorne army depot in nevada. the home of senate majority leader harry reid, home state.

and he took to the floor, and moments after he acknowledged it he chose to raise the issue of the sequester budget cuts. >> late last night seven were killed in hawthorne and many others were injured in an explosion during a training exercise near the ammunition depot, hawthorne, nevada. we don't know exactly what happened. there was a violent explosion, we know that. my thoughts are with those who are injured and of course, the families of those who lost loved ones. i'll do whatever i can to support the military and-- >> time. >> mr. president, it's very important we continue training our military, but one of the things that sequester, we cut back training and maintenance.

that's the way the sequester was written. >> megyn: national security correspondent jennifer griffin is live at the pentagon with more? >> reporter: this was hours after harry reid took to the senate floor and used the hawthorne tragedy to talk about the impact of sequestration on military readiness. >> it's just not appropriate, mr. president, that our military can't train and do the maintenance necessary these men and women, our marines were training there at hawthorne and with the sequester, it's going to cut the stuff back and i just hope everyone understands the sacrifices, the sacrifices made by our military. they are significant. >> reporter: the cause of the explosion is still under investigation by the marines, but military officials confirm that a 60-millimeter mortar round exploded prematurely inside its tube at about 7 p.m. local time. the pentagon has issued a ban

at this time on-- using 60 millimeter mortars until it's complete. this was a live scene carried out. three were killed immediately and others died while waiting to be medivaced to nearby hospitals. some were taken to reno. hawthorne army depot was used since 1930, has nearly 3000 buildings and desert conditions similar to iraq and afghanistan. >> but one of the things of sequester is we cut back in training and maintenance. that's the way the sequester was written. >> reporter: marine officials who we've spoken to in the wake of the hawthorne incident had this to say about senator reid's comment.

i don't know how this could be linked to budget cuts. >>. >> megyn: thank you. i just want today tell you though we edited the sound bite of harry reid going into the report for brevity, i'll tell you exactly what he said. he said, played this part for you, mr. president, late last night seven marines were killed, and many injured, and explosion during a training exercise, we don't know exactly what happened, but it was a violent explosion, my thoughts are with those injured and families of those who lost loved ones and the part that we took out, and marines all over the world are now focusing on the loss of their fellow marines, details are emerging and we don't know that the area has been blocked off. as i indicate it was quite a big explosion we'll follow this very closely, i'll do whatever i can going forward to support the u.s. military and family-- so on. and it jumped out at me what was in between the discussion of the hawthorne incident and what he jumped to talk about sequester and i just wanted to be transparent with you that

he didn't switch topics, he was still on the topic of what happened in hawthorne, so there you have it. and we'll try to get reaction from senator reid's office as to why he chose that moment to address the sequester and the budget cuts to the military. and want it also bring you background on hawthorne army depoe, southwest of reno in nevada. it stores ammunition, and over 230 square miles and high desert training facilities for military. to capitol hill, a hearing underway putting fbi director robert mueller on the hot seat. why congressional investigators have not yet heard from the survivors who were eyewitnesses to the terror attack that killed four americans in benghazi, including our ambassador on 9/11 of last year.

chief intel defense correspondent catherine herridge joins us. >> as we wait for the fbi oversight hearing, a short time ago the state department asked whether it would give investigators access to the survivors and the response was noncommittal. >> we have been working with the congress on the benghazi issue, both houses, many committees for months and months and months, and we have been very open it all of their requests and transparent with them about the details in our investigation. >> reporter: the investigation, fox news obtained a letter written by republican congressman frank wolf asking that egyptian authorities stop blocking access to a key benghazi suspect in kay rcairo, any country failing to cooperate with the u.s. and justice is in essence responsible for hammering an investigation. as we watch that oversight

hearing in a recent interview, the head of the house intelligence committee telling fox news the investigation seems to be stalled over two issues. >> the fbi investigation just has been going too slow. part of it is lack of effort on part of the administration to give the resources appropriate. and number two, the lack of receptiveness and the reason to have fbi agents conducting an investigation. >> and the cia had the lion's share of the contractors and personnel in benghazi and they've been asked to make the evacuees available to congressional investigators and we have ask the state department where that request stands. >> megyn: thank you. >> reporter: you're welcome. >> megyn: g.o.p. leaders threatened to subpoena the witnesses and may hold up the nomination of the new ambassador to libya if the administration does not cooperate. california congressman darrell issa is chairman of the committee on oversight and government reform which is not the committee that would issue those subpoenas. but let me just ask you while

i have you, mr. chairman, how difficult that be would be and could you at least get the names of the individuals who they're looking to identify, do you think? >> megyn, you're right. with our ongoing investigation of benghazi, what we're finding is that statements played just a few moments ago just isn't true. they have not been open and transparent. in fact, even the names of the survivors so they could be asked if they would appear have not been provided and i think the important thing is, nobody's trying to badger the victims, but the fact is that every time we interview people who were there, we find the stories told to us publicly and what the individuals are saying privately are always different. >> megyn: all right. chairman, i want to move on with you to another topic, i know you're very concerned today about the nomination of thomas perez, to head up the labor department. this is a top official at doj under eric holder right now and heads up the civil rights division and president obama apparently pleased with him and wanting him to head over to head up the labor

department and the wall street journal had a piece today that talked about how, quote, political muscle undermind the rule of law under mr. perez's civil rieghts division. in simple terms, what is the allegation that mr. perez did? >> one of the allegations is that he interfered and cost the american taxpayers 180 million dollars by getting a case dismissed where he didn't want to face the supreme court decision and gave up two very valid cases again, 180 million dollars of taxpayer money in st. paul. this was unprecedented. it had been set for additional this nominee has been expressed as not having been candid in his testimony. candid is it kind of one of the funny words in politics that means he didn't tell the whole truth. this is also somebody who refused to do his fundamental job which is to fully prosecute voter intimidation that fell under his watch. these are just some of the areas of concern that i think that senators have and they

need to ask questions and get answers and i don't think they're going to like the answers, particularly as to his lack of candor. >> there was a case that was going to go up for the u.s. supreme court, that challenged the theory of discrimination na mr. perez apparently believes in. that talks about how, it's basically whether you can proof racial discrimination by looking at statistics, rather than intent of specific cases and that was about to head to the supreme court. apparently mr. perez didn't like the chances of that theory being upheld by the supreme court, so he steps in on the case and tries to convince the city of st. paul, minnesota get out, dump it. and the supreme court said they would take it, he said don't do it, i don't want to you continue with appeal n exchange for you doing what i want you to do, i as the doj will not intervene to help the citizens in other two big lawsuits that were also pending. and so, it appears that the deal was cut. why is that a problem? is that sort of horse trading done all the time? >> well, it's been called unprecedented in their own internal investigation, you

remember, he flew to st. paul to make this deal. he basically paid 180 million dollar bribe by causing these cases to collapse and megyn, back to the important part. if in fact the city of st. paul and other cities around america are not guilty of discrimination, they're trying to do their job, and they've created an open environment, an environment envisioned in our constitution, but they're finding themselves falling, if you will, back on this whole question of you've got to hit certain numbers, af gyou've goto force the numbers. that was legitimate for the supreme court. this is a president who picks people to promote because they support his ideology rather than the rule of law. >> this is a man headed up the civil rights division at which the inspector general concluded there's a racial hostility within that department that remains deeply divided over whether cases enforcing rights under the voting rights laws should ever

be brought or should be brought with any consistency, where the victims in those voting cases are white and the defendants are black. that's under mr. perez and even some on the left have been saying, enough is enough. eric holder personally needs to answer for that ig's report. although it's gotten very scant coverage. so do you believe that that is a potential issue for mr. perez on his confirmation to head up the labor department? >> inge it's one of the most serious accusations, his failure to be candid when testifying and then this interference based on ideology. these seem to be the reasons the president is promoting him, which is exactly what you don't want to have in a cabinet officer whose primary job is jobs. we can't have that kind of ideology in a top cabinet position by some individual who has proven themselves to put ideology ahead of law, ideology ahead of the best interests of the country. >> yeah. >> and congressman issa, thanks for being here.

>> thank you, megyn. >> megyn: coming up, a stunning new report on america's retirement crisis and how millions of households barely have enough savings to make it through the first six months. we've got the numbers. the controversy over the easter egg roll and whether it could be canceled for budget reasons. bunny-gate next. @e@8ñúñ÷@@ hey, we got our cards, honey!

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♪ the easter bunny comes on easter morning ♪ >> will you see him at the white house this year? lots of questions whether the annual easter egg roll will get cut because of budget concerns? the white house says the roll is on, but ticket holders warned it could be canceled due to financial concerns and officials now are admitting they were concerned about funding. if that's true, however, why did jay carney say this to our

own jenna lee when she asked him about the event? >> well, actually, jenna, again, if you did a little reporting you know that the easter egg roll is open for a lot of of military families, a. b, it's paid for by the sale of the eggs that come out, as well as from donations on the outside. so it's a totally different budget. you know, these are apples and oranges. >> megyn: chris stirewalt is our fox news digital power editor on power play live. a snarky jay carney toward jenna lee who asked him a legitimate question. he maintained, look, this will be funded by the sale of the eggs and outside donations and apples and oranges, at that time she was asking about the sequester, to say -- to question the budget cuts as possibly affecting the easter egg roll. and now we get word from officials in the administration that indeed, they have been worried about funding on this.

and apparently, they don't think the little eggs and the little outside donations are necessarily going to cover it all, chris. >> well, now those little outside donations aren't necessarily so little, first of all. these are perhaps corporate partners, corporate sponsors that might like to partner with the white house and the administration. >> megyn: cadbury? >> well, hey, if they're not, they should, if anybody should. then again, that would not be in keeping with the first lady's initiative as relates to healthful choices. >> megyn: here is what i want to know, if it's funded by the eggs and outside donations, why did they put a disclaimer on the tickets saying this thing may get canceled if -- depending on the funding that -- i'm trying to find the exact language, hold on, i'll find it. this event is subject to cancellation due to funding uncertainty surrounding the

office of the president and other federal agencies. >> at the very least we know there are costs above and beyond having the black-eyed peas come in and do aerobics for overweight children or the festivities or fun and activities that are there that take place. >> megyn: and the secret service, maybe? >> yes, secret service staff, people there. i'm sure that there are foods cooked and after parties or before parties. i'm sure there are or costs, but let me offer a maybe more cynical point of view, it takes time to get a bunch of cards printed and one might guess that at the time that the tickets were being printed, the white house was in full sequestration scare mode, absolute, trying to ring the gong as loudly as possible and the president was out on the campaign trail and if you recall, it was announced there would be no more public tours of the white house and if somebody were making tickets

during that phase when it was the worse or better in terms of trying to get the republicans back off the automatic reductions to automatic increases in federal spending, that they might have taken some extra liberties with the language on the back of the tickets. no proof, but that's a possibility. >> megyn: by the way we asked our brain room to check will it's language every year on the easter egg roll tickets. it is not. it's special for 2013. what was going on in the government when you pointed out it was a disclaimer, it was the sequester. and the white house was asked why are you going to hold the easter egg roll, and why are you not having the tours and where are you getting the money when you've got the cuts. and the snarky response, if you did any reporting, you would know the funding from the sale of the eggs and outside groups and now word from the white house, chris, now they're saying we were concerned about a government shutdown. but no one is coming back and backing up jay carney with his

claim we were concerned we wouldn't sell enough eggs. we were concerned the outside donation to cadbury was going to fund something else this year. (laughter) that's right. >> megyn: my question is whether we're being misled. we care. >> this is washington. >> megyn: we care about the easter roll and kids participate in the roll. but are we being misled by the administration that won't say look, we were concerned about the sequester and now no longer think it's an issue and period, end of report. >> let me evade your question deftly to say, have you ever seen any more torturous climb down from a position as this administration from the close down the white house and sequester, and shut down-- the president can do a lot of things to make americans understand and feel the pain from these automatic reductions to the automatic increases. there's a lot of things he can do. but he can't do anything without damaging himself politically that relates to the mansion that's funded by taxpayers where he and his

family live a pretty nice life. you can't touch it, can't get near there or people say how come you get to have a big fancy party for st. patrick's day and go golf with tiger woods and we pay for the travel and you won't let the kids roll easter eggs? you can't do it. >> megyn: thank you.

>> fox news alert. after reports of a man with some kind of gun on a college campus in indiana come out, a student at indiana university, purdue university in indianapolis, we're being told, reported seeing a man with what appeared to be a rifle, possibly a shotgun in a parking lot earlier today. now, the students are told to stay inside until they're given the all-clear. no word on what any arrests. we'll keep you posted as the

situation continues. a former army officer is charged with revealing top secret data to a college student he was romancing. the fbi claims that 59-year-old benjamin pierce bishop revealed sensitive information on nuclear weapons and radar systems to his 27-year-old girlfriend, who was visiting the u.s. from china. prosecutors say he gave her classified documents several times after their relationship started in the summer of 2011 and he faces up to 20 years in prison if convicted. well, this comes as we learn of another potential national security breach. this one involving nasa. the fbi arresting a chinese national, a contractor with virtually unlimited access at the space agency's langley research facility in virginia. he was trying to board a one-way flight back home to his country at the time. live from washington with

more, doug? >> reporter: the only reason that authorities were alerted to the potential espionage and arrest, is through the efforts of whistle blowers. who alerted frank wolf's suspect's suspicious behavior. it turned out they were ignorant or willfully naive of what was going on. he was a chinese national working under contract at nasa's national institutes of aerospace on sensitive imaging technology. and fbi and dhs arrested him at dulles airport after he purchased a one way ticket to china. he told agents he was carrying a laptop, a cell phone and external hard drive, but a search later turned up more, including a second laptop belonging to nasa. congressman wolf is concerned that nasa has turned a blind eye to potential espionage by chinese nationals. >> i've also seen documents showing that other nasa contractors, simply employed chinese nationals.

that begs the question how many chinese nationals currently work at nasa and how many nationals from other designated countries work at nasa. we've not received an answer from nasa after the question was raised during the hearing with the ig last week. >> reporter: as evidence of nasa's indifference, mr. wolf points out the man was on an earlier occasion allowed by nasa supervisors to take his work and research back to china even after nasa learned about the concerns about him. some officials were indifferent and one wrote an internal e-mail quoting now, i think it would be in the government's best interesting best interesting to continue our work with him and the best use of taxpayer's money. mr. wolf is asking for an independent review of all of nasa's security protocol. and he's appearing in a court in virginia. >> megyn: and a stunning

report out today showing most future retirees don't have enough savings to fund their first year out of work. the new numbers on america's retirement crisis next. what are these folks going to do. and was this granny shown here on the left, a victim of abuse at the hands of her grandson or is she a cold-blooded premeditated killer. en play a 911 to see it if there's more to self-defense as she claims. and let kelly's court decide who is the victim here. kelly's court. ♪

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>> a breaking in just the last half hour. a big setback, possibly the end of the road for the controversial assault weapons ban. senate are dropping the ban from the initial gun control bill. california senator dianne feinstein says instead of being included in the measure, it will be offered as an amendment. 157 different assault weapons and high capacity ammunition magazines that would no longer

be lawful. the decision means the ban stands little chance of passing because of solid opposition from republicans and democrats in the senate and it's believed to have less of a chance in the house, but this is a decision made by those who control the senate and democrats today. well, a stunning new report shedding light on the growing retirement crisis in america. get this: it's a survey released by the employee benefit research institute and they've concluded that some 57% of those surveyed have less than $25,000 in savings. and these are folks that are going to retire, less than 25 grand in the bank, and a record high of 28% have no confidence they will be able to retire at all. how did we get here? melissa francis is host of "money with melissa francis" on the fox business network,

and chris plante of the host of the chrisplante show and leslie marshall and you think how scary that must be for the would-be retirees to look at the bank account and see less than 25,000 there. not talking about the people at the end of the life, but they have according to the actuaries, probably 25 or more years to live. melissa, what, you're supposed to live on a $1,000 a year? what are they supposed to do. >> it's a scary set of statistics and add that 28% of americans have dipped into their 401(k) during the past recession because he they didn't have enough money to get by and you add on to that, how much home equity value has been lost during this down turn. for our parents that's one big way they planned on retiring, saved up for a down payment, lived in it, raised your family there and when you retire sold it and used all of that equity that had grown over that time to retire on.

almost all of those things disappeared at the same time. pensions have gone away. we don't really live in a pension system any longer. so we have a real crisis coming and we know you can't defend on social security. >> megyn: yeah, and you look at the numbers, and you think, all right. so, if these people don't have any, you know, significant money in the bank now, where are they going to get it it in this job market, chris? you know, we've seen some rebounding, but we still have tens of millions of americans who are unemployed or underemployed, and it's not exactly like the jobs spigot has been turned on back full force. >> how many starter jobs are there on golf courses across america. it looks like we're all going to have to work forever at this point. social security we know is an ruse, and honestly, there are a couple of things here that are -- or would be good things, our longevity. >> megyn: we're living longer. >> yeah, we're living longer, and interest rates are low. on the face of it sound like a couple of pretty good things, but when you combine them. >> megyn: yeah. >> in a period of low chick

growth and very low interest rates, these retirement funds are predicated on assumptions of healthy growth in the economy and interest rates which accrue money in a safe way into these accounts. and when you do away with the interest income and you do away with the economic growth, you see a deflation of these retirement funds and they're not worth what you projected they would be worth so you run out of money ten years more quickly than you'd thought you were going to. >> megyn: and you're living 20 years longer than you thought you were. they talked to the actuaries, a man who reaches age 65 this year is now expected to live additional 20.5 years and women who turned 65 this year are now expected to live additional 22.7 years, so, you know, pretty good numbers in terms of your life span, leslie, but they weren't really planning on living that long and nor were the employers and more has the government been planning on seeing people live this long.

>> no, that's true. by the way, when i did some research on this, the longer we go into the future, the longer people are going to live and that's what the scientists are saying and geneticists are saying. i want to know why women aren't going to be living as long as men, the other way around. >> megyn: because we're doing this and no longer taking care of the field the. we're going out and having the stress of this job. >> okay, now i'm going to present something, okay? now, as much as i know my buddy chris over there would like to blame our president, the democrats and et cetera for this, we really can't. we have to blame ourselves. i'm guilty of this, too. which is we love to live now. we live in the now. and many people don't plan for the future and melissa, i'm with all of those seniors, i'm hoping my house will be my retirement and that the market will turn around. but it might, but it might not. but for those people much closer to retirement, and the fact that we have 10,000 more people a day entering their golden years because of the

baby boomers, this was inevitable, but all of you, let's think about this. in other societies, how do they tackle this? not just about the socialized government system, with extended families taking care of each other and we don't do that anymore. >> that's the direction we're moving in. >> megyn: what about the fact there's a cultural shift. we live for the here and now and we've been talking on the show since the beginning of time in america we've always believed that our children will do better than we will and we want that, we want the children and hand off a better legty so them so they can do better than we did and now there seems to be a shift in the country where we're saying, you need to support me. >> yeah, no, i mean, there has been a huge shift and i think that it's up to us 'cause we want to find solution toss this problem, obviously. it's up to us, number one, talk to our kids about savings. they have to understand out of the gate this is something they have to do over their lifetime and a lot of people say pay yourself, pay your savings kaccount. pay your 401(k) first.

maybe you're not saving for the down payment. maybe you're a renter. a lot of wonderful homes for rent as a result of everything that's happened in the housing market. when you're looking your student's debt loan and what you want to do for college. you have to decide on a practical field at a college you can afford. we have to train our kids to not consume and go into debt today, but plan ahead for the future. >> megyn: if they don't listen to melissa, chris, because the survey showed that 28% of americans have no confidence. >> not listen to me? >> and please, i've been telling you, 28% of americans have no confidence they'll have enough dough to retire comfortably. these people don't believe they will hever be able to retire. if they don't listen to melissa, find themselves without money, 65 years old. what happens to them. they look to the government and does the government have the money? >> no, obviously we, you know,

we we know that the social security trust fund is a joke, there's no fund there. and demographics are shifting and fewer people in the work place paying into a system to support more and more people who are retired. it's in part the sort of "me" generation coming of age, what about me? i'm going to live in the here and now and forget about tomorrow mentality that's playing into this, but honestly, you know, none of this is-- should come as a surprise. we know that life expect tenantens ancy is growing and growing and none of this should be a big surprise. we've seen this train coming for decades. >> megyn: we like to put things off. let me ask you, leslie, as the wife of a doctor, should people who have so little in their bank accounts start eating pizza and philly cheese steaks and forget the 22 years i'd rather eat how i want and live how i want, the at least if it's a shorter time frame

i'll be able to support myself. >> you know, my husband constantly gives lectures on prevention. he's an orthopedic surgeon, but talks about diet, exercise, and honey, if you talk about prevention you're going out of business and he looked at me, no, because they don't listen. they don't listen to what i say, it's true, we don't, we don't. if people listened there'd be no smokers in the country. >> and go ahead, melissa. megyn, i think it comes back to one thing we stayaid in the beginning of the skigs, it's going to fall to the middle generation to support both their children and older people in the family and no way around it. and we're going to be working longer. i've had a job since i was six months old and expect to go continue to work to the very end. and i think there's no way around it. >> megyn: do people know that, melissa was a very famous child actress. >> i don't know about very famous, generous of you, i've worked a long time. >> megyn: i watched, she he

was a star of "little house on the prairie" she was adorable. had you been my daughter i would have put you on tv as well. all right, panel, thank you. it's an interesting discussion. we're going to live longer, but be really poor. so see you there. but we'll be happy. right? >> oh, joy. >> megyn: coming up, dodging skyscrapers superhero style. a couple of daredevils on a death defying trips through one of the most iconic cities. the scary part of this flight. a grandmother on trial for shooting and killing her own grandson. was it an act of self-defense as she claimed or a calculated first degree murder, as the prosecution is alleging? wait until you hear this 911 call next. female announcer ] from more efficient payments. ♪ to more efficient pick-ups. ♪ wiress is limitless. [ female announcer ] from tracking the bus.

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>> kelly's court is back in session. on the docket today. a grandmother on trial for murdering her own grandson. a jury in michigan is deliberating right now deciding whether 75-year-old sandra lane is a victim or a killer. lane admitted gunning down

here grandson, but lawyers say it was self-defense, arguing she was repeatedly abused by the teen. and prosecutors tell lane pulled the trigger shooting jonathan hoffman six times in the final vengeful act in a rookec rocky relationship. and the 911 call:

>> he did die at age 17. was it first degree murder or self-defense? joining me now a defense attorney and form prosecutor. david is a defense attorney. wow, a chilling tape to listen to and she shot at him ten times, hitting him six and you can hear him and the fear, but i ask you, randy, whether the prosecution can prove this is first degree murder in light of her charges that he had been hitting her and had a history of abuse with her? >> they can and they can because of the 40 seconds. the 40 seconds was about the length of that telephone call. because you can throw out everything that happened before that phone call.

and say that there was something going on, though the prosecution will say, no, there was no fight beforehand, the woman didn't have a mark on her, but the 40 seconds, she can't be fearful for her life while he's on the phone with 911 saying, get help, i'm dying. so the self-defense goes out the window. it's gone and even if the jury loves her and hates him, it's gone. >> megyn: that's interesting. although, i think that her defense will argue, david, that that just shows how scared she was. even while down and shot and knowing the authorities were listening she continued firing. >> yeah, and what a sad tragedy all the way around. that's it, there's a long abusive relationship between the two. he had been using drugs and they had just got home from a drug test apparently he tested dirty and on the back to you, kicking and screaming and smashed the dashboard in the car and tremendous fear for her life.

she's an elderly and frail woman. and when it comes to an elderly people they can't grab a baseball bat. and when you grab a firearm you're going to die or the person attacking you is going to die. it's a tragic situation. from her perspective she was in reasonable fear for her life or grade bodily injury. >> megyn: we have a hard break and carry over. listen to the prosecution, they do not believe she had anything to fear. >> we've got a 17-year-old kid planning on leaving, hair brush out and no shirt, socks, and she comes upstairs to make him listen, with a gun. >> megyn: randy? >> look, when you have what appears to be a sympathetic defendant and perhaps a not so sympathetic victim. it's very confusing for the jury. the prosecution has to present something to the jury that

cannot be explained away and two things in this case can't be explained away. e may have beat up the dashboard, but not her and number two, the 40 seconds. she can't be in fear while he's on with 911. >> megyn: and right after this break, i'm going to show you the grandmother on the stand and how she says it went down. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased. some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money. which makes you wonder -- isn't that a conflict? search "proprietary mutual funds." yikes! then go to e-trade. we've got over 8,000 mutual funds, and not one of them has our name on it. we're in the business of finding the right investments for you. e-trade. less for us. more for you. the fund's prospectus contains its investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses, and other important information and should be read and considered carefully

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>> as i said a moment ago there had been a history of abuse and i think i'm wrong on that because i want you to listen to the grandmother on the stand talking about how it went down. >> he kicked me and he hit me. >> where did he hit you? >> in the head and then i shot the gun. >> why did you shoot the gun. >> because he was attacking me. >> that ever happened before.

>> no. >> it you want to hurt him? >> no. >> had it ever happened before? no. did you want to hurt him? no. she makes a compelling witness, david. >> you know, megyn, she's a woman who will taken over care and control and custody of the child when the parents moved out of state. she's obviously completely devastated. she had no prior criminal record and as i said before, when it comes to defending yourself when you're elderly and frail as she is there's no in between. you use a firearm and you have to defend yourself to save your life and this child had an excessive history of violence, drug use, and she knew that. and the fact that she was-- he was on the phone with 911 to me doesn't mean a lot. he could have hung up the phone and gun after her again and randy brought that up. >> megyn: i don't know. >> i don't think that's compelling particularly with the jury. >> megyn: could he? i want a call for the final side 911 call, hello he, listen to this, i don't know that he could have done anything more, listen.

>> randy? >> willful and deliberate. that's murder one. at that moment while he's on the phone with 911, her actions were willful and they were deliberate. and that's going to provide the jurors with a window because they weren't there. so they have to look for something that helps them to understand what happened. and that's what does it. and if both sides are smart, somebody asks for a compromise verdict, manslaughter, heat of passion so she doesn't die in jail. >> now megyn. >> megyn: quickly, david. ten seconds. >> it may very well be voluntary manslaughter, in a

heated moment in michigan. >> megyn: first degree seems extreme given the circumstances. we shall see. gentlemen, thank you, we will be right back.